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Stopping The Last One

Last post 11-15-2008 3:27 by Bayushi Tatsuya. 10 replies.
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  • 11-08-2008 19:34

    Stopping The Last One

     How do you stop someone who's got this?  Especially a Unicorn Deck that throws it on The Khan (Who already has a Tetsubo, decent follower, and the Armor as well).

     

    Is there much of a way if you don't have the force to be able to attack even after he's used it (Not to mention because the player popped out 2 more boxables immediately afterwards and I couldn't threaten more than one province).    Or is it pretty much over at that point?

     

    Especially, how can you if you're not able to get a hold of the Rares such as the one that lets you Remove from Game a card that can't be bowed, destroyed, sent home, etc?

  • 11-08-2008 20:22 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

    All you need is Determination and a kill action.  Or Unexpected Intimidation.  Now, these are rares, I admit.  But the Last One isn't really a very good card...it's more of a gimmick, than anything else, because of the simple existence of cards like Determination in the environment.
    Scorpion Clan - Courtier - Shugenja - The Fallen Man

  • 11-09-2008 1:18 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

    I play 3 determination in my military decks, and 2 in my dishonor decks.  That being said, the last one does not stop him being dishonored out of the game.  The wording actually makes it that much more funny, cause you can triple Saya him and he will take the loss all 3 times.  I also use Sorrows path, which will kill him, as it is not an action. 


    War does not decide who is Right. War decides who is Left.
  • 11-11-2008 10:29 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

    Depends on the deck you're playing.  You can still use cards that destroy a unit which will wipe out all the attachments, or Rout, Forgery, and a plethora of other cards can kill the tetsubo for force bleeding. The aforementioned Determination or Unexpected Intimidation work great as well.  Focus effects will still mess with him as will just outforcing him.

    Scorpion Clan. Dragon Clan. Monk. Rules Ninja. Instigator. Kuroiban
    Instigation open: Once per turn answer a rules a question to trigger a Complex.

  • 11-11-2008 10:59 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

     Well, if you've come to the point where he's got a chagatai with full armor and weapon, AND the unicorn player can still afford destroying FOUR or more personalities, my points are:

    -How did he not beat you before playing The Last One? It seems the game has been advancing a lot (chagatai turn 3, two more turns for the personalities, possibly one more for the attachments... he shouldn't play it before turn 7; at that point Chagatai has destroyed your four provinces twice) 

    -Did you try to be faster than him? It takes some time to play The Last One, a decent dishonor deck should be able to inflict honor losses and dishonor out by turn 7-8. Dishonored personalities destroyed by The Last One cause more losses. Dishonor him out!

    -Are you sure you're playing correctly the card and that you're not being fooled? If he brings Chagatai turn 3, and turn 4 plays the Last One, it has no effects because he didn't destroy four other personalities he controlled.

    Consider playing Game of Sincerity, from the IG. It's not a force penalty, it's better than that. 

    "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground." Cersei Lannister
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Scorpion Clan - Courtier - Sensei - Scholar - Loyal - Tattooed
  • 11-14-2008 1:37 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One


    I was using my Ninja Deck I posted for the Global...  I can do early damage, and mount a monster defense, but I seem to lack a lot of offensive power (Read:  The ability to be able to attack enough provinces he has to defend and risk personalities instead of just letting me through and then riding on in to stomp all my provinces). Though anyways, a few well timed Refugees stopped the early blitz units.  Then the Khan came out.  And he wasn't able to risk him, but I didn't have the things to make an attack either.

    It doesn't help I can't get a hold of some of the best Fate cards (Determination, for instance). My Hired Killers weren't showing (Early in the deck build, I probably had a bad shuffle to boot), and I didn't have the money to topple the Khan anyways.   So, as soon as he could, he dropped that.  I probably could have taken 3 provinces, but I just had no way to beat the Khan proper in the fourth.  Not without a much larger concentration of forces.  So it went into a cold war build up with neither of us having the ability to crack the other, he kept getting more and more troops out.  Total stalemate.  I finally lost when he'd both gotten almost all our personalities out.  And he'd hired killered a couple of mine, I'd gotten one or two of his.And I just couldn't match the force buildup he made.

  • 11-14-2008 10:26 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

     Sounds like your problem is not taking any risks.

    Your too worried about keeping your own guys. You should be attacking him at every turn. Regardless of if you can actually take the province.  Ninja decks pack a 2-1 Pk Ratio. Even just going into battle and scrapping it out puts tempo in your favor. Never let the build up continue. Also, Ninja decks are fantastic at retreating and movement. So go into battle, kill some guys, lose one of yours, then go home. 

     

    You should never let the game get to the point that you did. That has less to do with deck design and more to do with bad playstyle. (sorry for being honest here) but that really is a bad call. 

     

    Look at it this way. Ninja decks play an attrition match... if your hesitant to both attack and defend because your afriad, remember this: Most people only pack a few pk actions in their deck. Hired Killer, Ruthless Advance, Flanking Action, and Peasent Vengence. You know if your are playing a dueler off the bat.

    Ninjas get: KW, Vengeful Shadows, Parley, Silent Movements, Ruthless Advance, Hired Killer, Goju Zeshin, Bayushi Arashii, Bayushi Yumita, Unseen Asailent, Furious Assualt + Tsimaru Combo, Flanking Action, Crude Trap.... 

    If your battle actions don't go like this:

    Kill a guy.

    Kill a guy.

    Kill a guy.

    Move a guy. React. Kill a guy.

    Go home. Kill a guy.

    Bow a guy. Kill a guy.

     

    Then your ninja deck needs to be re-worked from the ground up. Just scrap it and start over from scratch.

     

    Much of the social history of the western world has been replacing what worked with what sounded good.

  • 11-14-2008 10:29 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

     Oh, and lets not forget one more thing: The Worst Match up for Unicorn should by all means be Scorpion Ninja. I have a friend who consistently in events always beats ToD unicorn while he's sleeping. Eats them for lunch for breakfist....

    A few more kill cards you can also put in your deck: Chuda Hyanku, and the Ambush Ninja. 

     

    On a side note: A sign of a good ninja deck is it almost has about a 5% chance of beating an honor/dishonor running deck. However it should chew apart ANY military deck that gets sent your way.

    Much of the social history of the western world has been replacing what worked with what sounded good.

  • 11-14-2008 17:10 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

    Actually, the worst match-up for Unicorn is The Spider's Lair.  It completely nullifies the advantage of cavalry (unless they can switch to honor, of course...which, of course, they can, especially if they're BMs.  But militarily, Unicorn really struggles against the Lair).
    Scorpion Clan - Courtier - Shugenja - The Fallen Man

  • 11-14-2008 19:08 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

     I'll be the first to admit I'm not a great player by any means.  Only have been playing regularly for a couple months.  So no worries about being told I'm doing something wrong!  I'm doing a lot more than that, likely.  ;)

     You say to attack, but this is a player who just plain won't defend unless he knows I can win the game in said attack - or at most might defend one province that I didn't declare an attack on just to be sure I don't have something fishy planned, and if I leave myself open... how can I defend against a counter attack? It's hard to kill if he's not defending.

    One thing I will say, I can't get a hold of Arashii, but, that's beside the point.   It goes with a lot of the more powerful cards that come from sets like the E&J Championship or UCP.

     

    Admittedly, I'm probably moving back to my Dishonor/Switch deck out of 7 Stings, I seem to have a few more of the cards necessary for that one anyways. 

  • 11-15-2008 3:27 In reply to

    Re: Stopping The Last One

    Dulahan:

     I'll be the first to admit I'm not a great player by any means.  Only have been playing regularly for a couple months.  So no worries about being told I'm doing something wrong!  I'm doing a lot more than that, likely.  ;)

     You say to attack, but this is a player who just plain won't defend unless he knows I can win the game in said attack - or at most might defend one province that I didn't declare an attack on just to be sure I don't have something fishy planned, and if I leave myself open... how can I defend against a counter attack? It's hard to kill if he's not defending.

    One thing I will say, I can't get a hold of Arashii, but, that's beside the point.   It goes with a lot of the more powerful cards that come from sets like the E&J Championship or UCP.

     

    Admittedly, I'm probably moving back to my Dishonor/Switch deck out of 7 Stings, I seem to have a few more of the cards necessary for that one anyways. 

     

     

    You know what you need in your deck, against someone like him?

     

    Unexpected Reinforcements (I think) and Under Suspiscion. That way, you only have to keep 1-2 people in reserve while the rest attack. Take two provinces (or just one), and don't worry about it. When he moves to attack, first thing you should do as your open action is Under Suspiscion - Allows anyone who is bowed to add their force while bowed, and even gives a +2 Force to boot. Then, only assign to defend that one or 2 people you kept home for your attack, and bring others in Via Unexpected Reinforcements - pulls two people in, and straigtens them.

     

    Play to this guy's strategy. If he doesn't defend and only counter attacks, then hamstring him with his weakness.

     

    Oh! I hope you're playing Find a Way Through! Lowering a province's strength by twice the Chi of your Ninja/Scout is a must, especially against him!

     

    (note - I am not sure if any of the names are correct. I know the effects pretty well, and can tie the cards pretty spot on with the images, but have trouble with the names. Sorry if I confuse anyone through this)


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